[Mickaboo Techlist] Adoption Form-RE Michelle Y.
Hi All: Michelle sent me the following email with regards to the Adoption Form. Also note Michelle wants to amend the text in the current PDF form--and subsequently the online form. The easiest thing would be if it could somehow be attached to ASM. I hope that is what you mean by "capture it as a pdf, submit to our database"? Would the process of submitting it also create an entry in ASM of the person's name? ASM doesn't deal with pdf's as such, but it does store them. I can do this without any problems--provided the fields exist for entering the data and I have CRUD rights (Create, Retrieve, Update, Delete) to the database. I am more than willing to run a sample test against the test ASM DB. I will of course strip html from the fields, dissallow access of code from outside the site, etc) before submitting to the database. But is there some way of notifying the coordinators of a new entry or should we email an announcement to check the db. If we email to check the db--are there flags for new entries? Suggestions--comments W. R. Whitcomb Sr. Systems Engineer ZoZo Engineering/Manufacturing 400 Spear Street, Suite 105 San Francisco, CA 94105 Telephone: (415)227-4450 FAX: (415)227-9698
Wendi/Michelle: Mal and I are still trying to figure out how much coordination we want between the application forms and ASM itself. On one hand it would be incredibly useful to have the application forms create an ASM entry for a person and then add themselves to that persons' ASM entry and notify us into OTRS. On the other hand it makes both of us very nervous to allow members of the public to directly imput data (in any form) into ASM, which is our primary data source about everything. As it is, it's very difficult to get human beings (our coordinators) to enter data in properly and take care of the data. Our worry is that, while a coordinator may know that "Karen Gundy-Burlett" in ASM and "Karen Burlett" submitting an application are the same woman, the application forms will make no such distinction. How many duplicate ASM entries might we end up with? And with duplicate entries, which of the two incorrect data points is the "more" correct one once we notice it? So far I really like the idea of automating entry from the application form into ASM but I'm being held back by my concerns over data integrity (primarily) and security of giving the app write-access (secondarily). Having the app email itself to our OTRS queue and then having a real person handle the app seems like the best way to go right now, but I could be convinced otherwise. Wendi Whitcomb wrote:
Hi All:
Michelle sent me the following email with regards to the Adoption Form. Also note Michelle wants to amend the text in the current PDF form--and subsequently the online form. /The easiest thing would be if it could somehow be attached to ASM. I hope that is what you mean by "capture it as a pdf, submit to our database"? Would the process of submitting it also create an entry in ASM of the person's name? ASM doesn't deal with pdf's as such, but it does store them./ // I can do this without any problems--provided the fields exist for entering the data and I have CRUD rights (Create, Retrieve, Update, Delete) to the database. I am more than willing to run a sample test against the test ASM DB. I will of course strip html from the fields, dissallow access of code from outside the site, etc) before submitting to the database. But is there some way of notifying the coordinators of a new entry or should we email an announcement to check the db. If we email to check the db--are there flags for new entries? Suggestions--comments / /
W. R. Whitcomb Sr. Systems Engineer ZoZo Engineering/Manufacturing 400 Spear Street, Suite 105 San Francisco, CA 94105 Telephone: (415)227-4450 FAX: (415)227-9698
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Matt: One could conceivably set up a small database modeled after ASM to handle adoption forms. There could be an administrative checkbox for form approval. The forms that are "approved" could be exported (the data) to the ASM database this sould be a bulk export at some fixed time--End of month reconcillation. I realize this is an extra step, but it provides value by: 1. Maintaining the security of the Mickaboo db (ASM) 2. Preventing any type of public access to the Mickaboo db (ASM) 3. Enforcing a check of the data before importing to ASM--I would assume only someone with a certain level of access and knowledge could check off the approval box 4. Additionally the Approved data could be deleted form the mini db after successful import to ASM. I would be willing to set up the mini db and put a frontend to it-- Wendi _____ From: AMuse [mailto:amuse@foofus.com] Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 12:54 PM To: wrw@zozoeng.com; The Mickaboo Tech Team List; Michelle Yesney Subject: Re: [Mickaboo Techlist] Adoption Form-RE Michelle Y. Wendi/Michelle: Mal and I are still trying to figure out how much coordination we want between the application forms and ASM itself. On one hand it would be incredibly useful to have the application forms create an ASM entry for a person and then add themselves to that persons' ASM entry and notify us into OTRS. On the other hand it makes both of us very nervous to allow members of the public to directly imput data (in any form) into ASM, which is our primary data source about everything. As it is, it's very difficult to get human beings (our coordinators) to enter data in properly and take care of the data. Our worry is that, while a coordinator may know that "Karen Gundy-Burlett" in ASM and "Karen Burlett" submitting an application are the same woman, the application forms will make no such distinction. How many duplicate ASM entries might we end up with? And with duplicate entries, which of the two incorrect data points is the "more" correct one once we notice it? So far I really like the idea of automating entry from the application form into ASM but I'm being held back by my concerns over data integrity (primarily) and security of giving the app write-access (secondarily). Having the app email itself to our OTRS queue and then having a real person handle the app seems like the best way to go right now, but I could be convinced otherwise. Wendi Whitcomb wrote: Hi All: Michelle sent me the following email with regards to the Adoption Form. Also note Michelle wants to amend the text in the current PDF form--and subsequently the online form. The easiest thing would be if it could somehow be attached to ASM. I hope that is what you mean by "capture it as a pdf, submit to our database"? Would the process of submitting it also create an entry in ASM of the person's name? ASM doesn't deal with pdf's as such, but it does store them. I can do this without any problems--provided the fields exist for entering the data and I have CRUD rights (Create, Retrieve, Update, Delete) to the database. I am more than willing to run a sample test against the test ASM DB. I will of course strip html from the fields, dissallow access of code from outside the site, etc) before submitting to the database. But is there some way of notifying the coordinators of a new entry or should we email an announcement to check the db. If we email to check the db--are there flags for new entries? Suggestions--comments W. R. Whitcomb Sr. Systems Engineer ZoZo Engineering/Manufacturing 400 Spear Street, Suite 105 San Francisco, CA 94105 Telephone: (415)227-4450 FAX: (415)227-9698 _____ _______________________________________________ Techlist mailing list Techlist@mickaboo.org https://mickaboo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/techlist
I'd certainly be much happier with that kind of setup. I'm willing to give it a go if Michelle and others think it'll help with administration. Note that we do not technically need PDFs of anything until adoption forms are -signed- by the person. We could always accept all this imput from the web forms and then, when they're ready to foster or adopt (ie, when they actually show up to take a bird from us) generate their form to sign from ASM and have them sign it then. Wendi Whitcomb wrote:
Matt:
One could conceivably set up a small database modeled after ASM to handle adoption forms. There could be an administrative checkbox for form approval. The forms that are "approved" could be exported (the data) to the ASM database this sould be a bulk export at some fixed time--End of month reconcillation. I realize this is an extra step, but it provides value by:
1. Maintaining the security of the Mickaboo db (ASM) 2. Preventing any type of public access to the Mickaboo db (ASM) 3. Enforcing a check of the data before importing to ASM--I would assume only someone with a certain level of access and knowledge could check off the approval box 4. Additionally the Approved data could be deleted form the mini db after successful import to ASM.
I would be willing to set up the mini db and put a frontend to it--
Wendi
------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* AMuse [mailto:amuse@foofus.com] *Sent:* Monday, August 17, 2009 12:54 PM *To:* wrw@zozoeng.com; The Mickaboo Tech Team List; Michelle Yesney *Subject:* Re: [Mickaboo Techlist] Adoption Form-RE Michelle Y.
Wendi/Michelle:
Mal and I are still trying to figure out how much coordination we want between the application forms and ASM itself.
On one hand it would be incredibly useful to have the application forms create an ASM entry for a person and then add themselves to that persons' ASM entry and notify us into OTRS. On the other hand it makes both of us very nervous to allow members of the public to directly imput data (in any form) into ASM, which is our primary data source about everything.
As it is, it's very difficult to get human beings (our coordinators) to enter data in properly and take care of the data. Our worry is that, while a coordinator may know that "Karen Gundy-Burlett" in ASM and "Karen Burlett" submitting an application are the same woman, the application forms will make no such distinction. How many duplicate ASM entries might we end up with? And with duplicate entries, which of the two incorrect data points is the "more" correct one once we notice it?
So far I really like the idea of automating entry from the application form into ASM but I'm being held back by my concerns over data integrity (primarily) and security of giving the app write-access (secondarily). Having the app email itself to our OTRS queue and then having a real person handle the app seems like the best way to go right now, but I could be convinced otherwise.
Wendi Whitcomb wrote:
Hi All:
Michelle sent me the following email with regards to the Adoption Form. Also note Michelle wants to amend the text in the current PDF form--and subsequently the online form. /The easiest thing would be if it could somehow be attached to ASM. I hope that is what you mean by "capture it as a pdf, submit to our database"? Would the process of submitting it also create an entry in ASM of the person's name? ASM doesn't deal with pdf's as such, but it does store them./ // I can do this without any problems--provided the fields exist for entering the data and I have CRUD rights (Create, Retrieve, Update, Delete) to the database. I am more than willing to run a sample test against the test ASM DB. I will of course strip html from the fields, dissallow access of code from outside the site, etc) before submitting to the database. But is there some way of notifying the coordinators of a new entry or should we email an announcement to check the db. If we email to check the db--are there flags for new entries? Suggestions--comments / /
W. R. Whitcomb Sr. Systems Engineer ZoZo Engineering/Manufacturing 400 Spear Street, Suite 105 San Francisco, CA 94105 Telephone: (415)227-4450 FAX: (415)227-9698
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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I was just going to suggest what Wendi did, so I second the idea! My only note other than that is design-specific: the form seems very long and might discourage some folks, so could we do a double column instead of single? (I realize that it's currently a double column and that what I'm actually suggesting is a four column layout.) Also I would move the phone number note, landlord note and all other notes that appear to the right of the input fields over to directly below the form item text. For example instead of: How would you or do you discipline your birds?* <text box> <italics>Please be specific.</italics> I suggest: How would you or do you discipline your birds?* <text box> <italics>Please be specific.</italics> /lc On Aug 17, 2009, at 1:17 PM, AMuse wrote:
I'd certainly be much happier with that kind of setup. I'm willing to give it a go if Michelle and others think it'll help with administration.
Note that we do not technically need PDFs of anything until adoption forms are -signed- by the person. We could always accept all this imput from the web forms and then, when they're ready to foster or adopt (ie, when they actually show up to take a bird from us) generate their form to sign from ASM and have them sign it then.
Wendi Whitcomb wrote:
Matt:
One could conceivably set up a small database modeled after ASM to handle adoption forms. There could be an administrative checkbox for form approval. The forms that are "approved" could be exported (the data) to the ASM database this sould be a bulk export at some fixed time--End of month reconcillation. I realize this is an extra step, but it provides value by:
1. Maintaining the security of the Mickaboo db (ASM) 2. Preventing any type of public access to the Mickaboo db (ASM) 3. Enforcing a check of the data before importing to ASM--I would assume only someone with a certain level of access and knowledge could check off the approval box 4. Additionally the Approved data could be deleted form the mini db after successful import to ASM.
I would be willing to set up the mini db and put a frontend to it--
Wendi
------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* AMuse [mailto:amuse@foofus.com] *Sent:* Monday, August 17, 2009 12:54 PM *To:* wrw@zozoeng.com; The Mickaboo Tech Team List; Michelle Yesney *Subject:* Re: [Mickaboo Techlist] Adoption Form-RE Michelle Y.
Wendi/Michelle:
Mal and I are still trying to figure out how much coordination we want between the application forms and ASM itself.
On one hand it would be incredibly useful to have the application forms create an ASM entry for a person and then add themselves to that persons' ASM entry and notify us into OTRS. On the other hand it makes both of us very nervous to allow members of the public to directly imput data (in any form) into ASM, which is our primary data source about everything.
As it is, it's very difficult to get human beings (our coordinators) to enter data in properly and take care of the data. Our worry is that, while a coordinator may know that "Karen Gundy-Burlett" in ASM and "Karen Burlett" submitting an application are the same woman, the application forms will make no such distinction. How many duplicate ASM entries might we end up with? And with duplicate entries, which of the two incorrect data points is the "more" correct one once we notice it?
So far I really like the idea of automating entry from the application form into ASM but I'm being held back by my concerns over data integrity (primarily) and security of giving the app write-access (secondarily). Having the app email itself to our OTRS queue and then having a real person handle the app seems like the best way to go right now, but I could be convinced otherwise.
Wendi Whitcomb wrote:
Hi All:
Michelle sent me the following email with regards to the Adoption Form. Also note Michelle wants to amend the text in the current PDF form--and subsequently the online form. /The easiest thing would be if it could somehow be attached to ASM. I hope that is what you mean by "capture it as a pdf, submit to our database"? Would the process of submitting it also create an entry in ASM of the person's name? ASM doesn't deal with pdf's as such, but it does store them./ // I can do this without any problems--provided the fields exist for entering the data and I have CRUD rights (Create, Retrieve, Update, Delete) to the database. I am more than willing to run a sample test against the test ASM DB. I will of course strip html from the fields, dissallow access of code from outside the site, etc) before submitting to the database. But is there some way of notifying the coordinators of a new entry or should we email an announcement to check the db. If we email to check the db--are there flags for new entries? Suggestions--comments / /
W. R. Whitcomb Sr. Systems Engineer ZoZo Engineering/Manufacturing 400 Spear Street, Suite 105 San Francisco, CA 94105 Telephone: (415)227-4450 FAX: (415)227-9698
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Hi Stega: I think moving the tip below text fields is fine, but below text areas usually isn't a good idea (people read left to right and don't always look down before filling out the area) As far as columns--for usability reasons it should be a single column. Research shows more mistakes are made on double column forms. I have allowed check boxes that add or remove the Foster and Adoption component--this should shorten it for the Foster people :). I could use some javascript magic to reveal sections as each section is completed, but I tend to not like to use that type of "magic" on a long form. Not everyone enables javascript--and so a lot of added work to degrade gracefully. Another option is to page the form--(pagination). Wendi -----Original Message----- From: techlist-bounces@mickaboo.org [mailto:techlist-bounces@mickaboo.org] On Behalf Of stega Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 2:39 PM To: The Mickaboo Tech Team List Subject: Re: [Mickaboo Techlist] Adoption Form-RE Michelle Y. I was just going to suggest what Wendi did, so I second the idea! My only note other than that is design-specific: the form seems very long and might discourage some folks, so could we do a double column instead of single? (I realize that it's currently a double column and that what I'm actually suggesting is a four column layout.) Also I would move the phone number note, landlord note and all other notes that appear to the right of the input fields over to directly below the form item text. For example instead of: How would you or do you discipline your birds?* <text box> <italics>Please be specific.</italics> I suggest: How would you or do you discipline your birds?* <text box> <italics>Please be specific.</italics> /lc On Aug 17, 2009, at 1:17 PM, AMuse wrote:
I'd certainly be much happier with that kind of setup. I'm willing to give it a go if Michelle and others think it'll help with administration.
Note that we do not technically need PDFs of anything until adoption forms are -signed- by the person. We could always accept all this imput from the web forms and then, when they're ready to foster or adopt (ie, when they actually show up to take a bird from us) generate their form to sign from ASM and have them sign it then.
Wendi Whitcomb wrote:
Matt:
One could conceivably set up a small database modeled after ASM to handle adoption forms. There could be an administrative checkbox for form approval. The forms that are "approved" could be exported (the data) to the ASM database this sould be a bulk export at some fixed time--End of month reconcillation. I realize this is an extra step, but it provides value by:
1. Maintaining the security of the Mickaboo db (ASM) 2. Preventing any type of public access to the Mickaboo db (ASM) 3. Enforcing a check of the data before importing to ASM--I would assume only someone with a certain level of access and knowledge could check off the approval box 4. Additionally the Approved data could be deleted form the mini db after successful import to ASM.
I would be willing to set up the mini db and put a frontend to it--
Wendi
--------------------------------------------------------------------- --- *From:* AMuse [mailto:amuse@foofus.com] *Sent:* Monday, August 17, 2009 12:54 PM *To:* wrw@zozoeng.com; The Mickaboo Tech Team List; Michelle Yesney *Subject:* Re: [Mickaboo Techlist] Adoption Form-RE Michelle Y.
Wendi/Michelle:
Mal and I are still trying to figure out how much coordination we want between the application forms and ASM itself.
On one hand it would be incredibly useful to have the application forms create an ASM entry for a person and then add themselves to that persons' ASM entry and notify us into OTRS. On the other hand it makes both of us very nervous to allow members of the public to directly imput data (in any form) into ASM, which is our primary data source about everything.
As it is, it's very difficult to get human beings (our coordinators) to enter data in properly and take care of the data. Our worry is that, while a coordinator may know that "Karen Gundy-Burlett" in ASM and "Karen Burlett" submitting an application are the same woman, the application forms will make no such distinction. How many duplicate ASM entries might we end up with? And with duplicate entries, which of the two incorrect data points is the "more" correct one once we notice it?
So far I really like the idea of automating entry from the application form into ASM but I'm being held back by my concerns over data integrity (primarily) and security of giving the app write-access (secondarily). Having the app email itself to our OTRS queue and then having a real person handle the app seems like the best way to go right now, but I could be convinced otherwise.
Wendi Whitcomb wrote:
Hi All:
Michelle sent me the following email with regards to the Adoption Form. Also note Michelle wants to amend the text in the current PDF form--and subsequently the online form. /The easiest thing would be if it could somehow be attached to ASM. I hope that is what you mean by "capture it as a pdf, submit to our database"? Would the process of submitting it also create an entry in ASM of the person's name? ASM doesn't deal with pdf's as such, but it does store them./ // I can do this without any problems--provided the fields exist for entering the data and I have CRUD rights (Create, Retrieve, Update, Delete) to the database. I am more than willing to run a sample test against the test ASM DB. I will of course strip html from the fields, dissallow access of code from outside the site, etc) before submitting to the database. But is there some way of notifying the coordinators of a new entry or should we email an announcement to check the db. If we email to check the db--are there flags for new entries? Suggestions--comments / /
W. R. Whitcomb Sr. Systems Engineer ZoZo Engineering/Manufacturing 400 Spear Street, Suite 105 San Francisco, CA 94105 Telephone: (415)227-4450 FAX: (415)227-9698
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participants (3)
-
AMuse -
stega -
Wendi Whitcomb