I feel like we all have sanctuaries as it is....I personally have 20+ birds all but 1 rescued through Mickaboo, I know Elizabeth & Cheryl do too. I think what is best is to take the birds at whatever capacity you are capable. I agree about letting birds live the way you are suggesting however at this astronomical rate that the birds come in- we have to take them however we can to the best of our abilities with a little less stringent guidelines. I totally respect your opinion- and we actually care for most of our birds in that exact way. I guess what I am saying is - if though there are folks who come forward with only the ability to take in 2 kings in a city apartment and they can care for them quite well- then there are 2 saved. They may not be let loose to fly on a daily basis (ours are, but many volunteers do not have that luxury) but they are fed & cared for to the best possible means....it beats euthanasia I believe. I love your idealism- please continue to care & keep thinking of the land ... the birds need it!! Shoot- WE need for you to get it! J From: mickacoo-bounces@mickaboo.org [mailto:mickacoo-bounces@mickaboo.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Y Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 12:35 AM To: General mickaboo discussion Cc: MickaCoo@mickaboo.org Subject: Re: [MickaCoo] [Mickaboo Discuss] Moratoriums, possible solution for some species? ALSO: two free cages available Correction: I miscounted. The built-for-MickaCoo aviary capacity is more than 100 birds (uncrowded and with room to fly). e ________________________________ From: Elizabeth Y Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 12:17 AM To: General mickaboo discussion Cc: MickaCoo@mickaboo.org Subject: RE: [Mickaboo Discuss] Moratoriums, possible solution for some species? ALSO: two free cages available I want to challenge and encourage you all with the information that there have been at least 7 aviaries built (so far) SPECIFICALLY for MickaCoo pigeons and doves with a combined capacity of more than 85 birds (a combination of adopted and fostered) and, while I know parrot aviaries are more complex and expensive, they are certainly possible. Mira Tweti writes about the Rutledge Cockatoo Rescue in Washington in her book, Of Parrots and People and I was very inspired by it. It's what I'll be doing for some parrots someday. ________________________________ From: Cal Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 3:23 PM To: General mickaboo discussion Subject: Re: [Mickaboo Discuss] Moratoriums, possible solution for some species? ALSO: two free cages available Unfortunately, I think it's easier said than done, Kait. We would need to find a volunteer who has the land and is willing to dedicate it to Mickaboo's use. We need to get the materials needed to construct aviaries. We need volunteers to give their time to make the aviaries. Then someone needs to maintain and monitor the flocks we house there. Is this land going to be in a central-enough location that we can have regular volunteers who help care for the many birds? Or are we going to expect the generous land-owner to do that, as well? And do we have enough money/donations to see to necessary vet care for all of those birds, for the rest of their lives? It would certainly be nice! But I think it'd be difficult to pull off. ~Rachael On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Kait Ferrall wrote: ________________________________________________________________________ First -- I have two cages that would be suitable for temporary quarantine cages for a small bird or two. I just purchased a large cage for the three budgies I'm fostering, same size cage as what my two 'tiels are in, and therefore do not need these small cages anymore. Black cage, has an angled roof like a house: 22 x 15 x 22 White cage, rectangular (with flat roof): 23 x 16 x 15 Second -- Here we go: It saddens me (and I know I'm not alone) that all of these intelligent, special, and still not fully understood animals are in such dire straights as they are. I'm wondering, doesn't anyone have land? On which mini aviaries may be built? I'm not sure we should always be trying to find perfect homes with human beings for some of these birds. They belong in the trees, they shouldn't even be here at all, so why force them to try to conform to human expectations of a pet? Why not let them be birds? Why hope that those who make it through the approval process stick with the lessons learned? We are so different from birds and how we communicate, and it gets hard compared to having a dog. You can have a great heart, great intentions, and still get exhausted and feel at a loss for what to do or how to handle something. Birds are an entirely different animal to learn about. There is a lot of pressure for us to know how to make them happy so they don't pluck. And even if they are well taken care of, they still sometimes pluck. Why? They shouldn't be here! They shouldn't be spending their days clinging to human interaction, depending on that human for a proper understanding of their needs. They should be in the trees with other birds, living a bird's life. It would be great if we could find land, build some aviaries, copy this model maybe http://www.cockatoorescue.org/index_files/Page331.htm Let them live their lives without trying to find those perfect, approval-worthy homes with humans who almost will always have some issue come up that makes it difficult to provide the best for these amazing animals. I love them, I want to rescue every single one I see posted on Facebook, pictured on the website, reading their stories (through a human's eyes), and I cry for them. I'd love to see this organization build toward having a sanctuary for the many birds who would be happy not having a perfect human-bird relationship, without having to constantly need human interaction. They can be happy without us locking them up when we're out of the house, trimming their wings (which corresponds to cutting the feet off of a dog), controlling them to make them conform to us. If I can find land I can afford, I'd do it. Maybe I can, I'm looking, because I want to build a straw-bale house with an aviary attached (like a sun room, with trees and ropes, etc) which connects to an outdoor enclosed aviary for fresh air, etc). I hope to provide a sanctuary, look after them, provide shelter and great foraging under leaf-litter and the shade of a bird-safe tree, things to tear up, and other birds of their own kind to be with, flocks. We don't have to feel restricted to finding homes with proper human individuals who are trying to rescue and not purchase from these awful stores that sell them. We can do a sanctuary! Why not? ------- HOW TO -------------------- CHANGE PERSONAL SETTINGS: https://mickaboo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/discuss/ VIEW LIST ARCHIVE: https://mickaboo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/discuss/ HOW TO RESET YOUR LIST PASSWORD: http://confluence.mickaboo.org/x/2wFj