I’ve tried talking to pet stores about the products they carry for birds and it has been unsuccessful. I think it would be better to have them hire an avian vet as a consultant to advise them on the products they carry. The avian vets have more credibility and heaven knows, a vet could use the business right now. It could potentially build the vet’s client base as well. As for adoption fairs, the cat rescues are having problems with Petco restricting the cats they can submit for adoption. Petco won’t allow FIV+ cats in adoption fairs although there is no public health risk. We might face the same problem in the future. Of course, that would require a retailer to know enough about bird illnesses to discriminate. That would be progress in itself. Karen From: media-advisors-bounces@mickaboo.org [mailto:media-advisors-bounces@mickaboo.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan Harris Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:51 PM To: Mickaboo media advisor team; adoptkings@gmail.com; Tammy Azzaro Cc: Karen Watkins; Mickaboo media advisor team; Rhonda Bennon Subject: Re: [Media-advisors] SECOND REQUEST Meeting w/pet store owners and others?? Referring to the "two approaches" Elizabeth enumerates, I liked numbers 1, 4 and 5 and 8, and in varying degrees felt uneasy with 2, 3, 6 and 7. Specific reactions below interpolated in red, followed by general comments. -jonathan BIRDS CONTINUE FOR SALE 1. Pet sellers and staff could attend Mickaboo's Basic Bird Care & Avian Lighting classes and provide feedback on the material and Mickaboo could share what we've learned from our end of the "business" GOOD 2. Pet sellers could purchase "gift certificates" for each of their customers to attend a Mickaboo Bird Care class before purchasing a bird (say for $35/family) & Mickaboo could teach them the basics of up-to-date avian care (much more efficiently than pet sellers doing it one customer at a time) 3. Same for the Avian Lighting class UNEASY WITH 2 AND 3. It smacks of a shakedown (we want a cut of your action) and thereby makes us tacitly complicit in the rest of their activities — or so it feels to me. 4. Pet sellers could do an audit of the foods and supplies they sell in order to eliminate unsafe/unhealthy products and Mickaboo volunteers could help GOOD 5. Pet sellers could agree to minimum cage sizes per species and Mickaboo could provide information based on years of seeing what doesn't work for birds GOOD, although there are other health and happiness issues in pet stores besides cage size. 6. Pet sellers could contribute funds towards the care of unwanted and surrendered birds (whether to SFACC to divvy up amongst the rescues they use or to Mickaboo directly) and Mickaboo would have one more revenue stream to continue doing the work that needs to be done. OK, but again smacks of a shakedown and gets easily factored into the cost of doing business. They may just pass it on to customers or, worse, cut corners elsewhere to stay competitive, to their birds' detriment. 7. Pet sellers could publicize the many, many, many homeless birds that Mickaboo has available for adoption in their stores. WELL ... OK, they could do that, but will they? They already hate us and slander us at every opportunity. They might agree to have our flyers at their stores (like PetCo has a sign saying "Consider adoption first"), but do you really imagine they'd stop bad-mouthing us and our birds? Here, ironically they are correct — we ARE competitors; only it's they who would want us out of their profit-making way. At best (if they did honorably display our materials) it offers them cheap tokenism and makes us implicitly endorse their stores as they now are. I believe if we have to swallow the continued sale of birds, we should divorce ourselves from anything that smacks of endorsing their practices, or worse seems like a shakedown or sell-out on our part (money for Mickaboo = we tolerate their abuses). IMO, our attention should be focused entirely on what the stores themselves need to do in order to provide adequate care to their birds and education to their customers. If they want our help, that's fine, but we shouldn't require it, so long as they agree to shoulder the responsibility. So that's where I would start. We want birds to be well treated from the time they are hatched to the time they are sold. We want people who purchase and keep birds to be well informed about what birds need in terms of diet, medical care, stimulation, and social interaction - at a minimum. I would then stress that this is not happening, and for us to be OK with bird sales that has to change fundamentally. We have to be in agreement about what adequate bird care is (for each species), diet, veterinary care, etc. We must insist that bird care sheets and bird care guidance by pet stores are often inadequate. Something more like Mickaboo's basic bird care class is needed - and that can't be done in under a couple hours. If they want to give their own basic bird care classes, based on an agreed curriculum and standards, that's fine. If they want to pay Mickaboo to do it that's fine too. But it has to be a pre-condition for sale. People need to know what they're getting into. No more impulse buying. And I want full disclosure of where they're getting their birds. We should demand the right to inspect those facilities. If we can discuss minimum standards for cages and pet store sales, then I think it's time to discuss minimum standards at breeding facilities. No more supporting avian slave-mills. Now of course If birds are no longer for sale, then I have no problem with 2, 3, 6, or 7. In fact, the burden maybe shifts to what WE can do to mitigate the effects on them. I think we can offer to hold adoption fairs or educational events at their stores to bring in traffic, to recommend them to our volunteers and the public at large, to (maybe) let them keep some of our foster birds or (maybe maybe) encourage them to take in others we cannot house. ??? ... -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Young Sent: Jul 28, 2010 8:22 PM To: Tammy Azzaro Cc: Rhonda Bennon , Mickaboo media advisor team , Karen Watkins Subject: Re: [Media-advisors] SECOND REQUEST Meeting w/pet store owners and others?? I REALLY hope you can make it, Tammy OR please suggest an alternate date/time that would work to meet if this Friday won't. And, while on the subject, I thought I'd repost Sally's description of the meeting's objective and see what ideas the group has- The idea behind this is to just see what, if any, common ground there may be from various people involved in the issue and to brainstorm ways all the different groups could work together to save animals and increase adoptions. I think there are two approaches- ways we could work together if pet sellers continue to sell birds and ways we could work together if pet sellers stopped selling birds. Here are some ideas that I (and I'm not sure which if any are good ones) but I want to jumpstart a discussion so here 'goes. BIRDS CONTINUE FOR SALE 1. Pet sellers and staff could attend Mickaboo's Basic Bird Care & Avian Lighting classes and provide feedback on the material and Mickaboo could share what we've learned from our end of the "business" 2. Pet sellers could purchase "gift certificates" for each of their customers to attend a Mickaboo Bird Care class before purchasing a bird (say for $35/family) & Mickaboo could teach them the basics of up-to-date avian care (much more efficiently than pet sellers doing it one customer at a time) 3. Same for the Avian Lighting class 4. Pet sellers could do an audit of the foods and supplies they sell in order to eliminate unsafe/unhealthy products and Mickaboo volunteers could help 5. Pet sellers could agree to minimum cage sizes per species and Mickaboo could provide information based on years of seeing what doesn't work for birds 6. Pet sellers could contribute funds towards the care of unwanted and surrendered birds (whether to SFACC to divvy up amongst the rescues they use or to Mickaboo directly) and Mickaboo would have one more revenue stream to continue doing the work that needs to be done. 7. Pet sellers could publicize the many, many, many homeless birds that Mickaboo has available for adoption in their stores BIRDS NO LONGER FOR SALE All of the above plus 8. Foster birds in their stores and help generate, educate and support adopters On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Tammy Azzaro wrote: Hi, I would love to be there but I have to work out childcare. I'll get back to you today after my husband gets home. Thanks, tammy On Jul 28, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Karen Watkins wrote: How about a maybe from me? I'm waiting to hear when funeral services will be held. If the service is Saturday, I'll take time off Friday.. If the service is Friday afternoon, I can't attend the meeting. I would love to discuss cost margins on pet sales with them. Karen On Jul 28, 2010 11:01 AM, "Elizabeth Young" wrote: Hey folks- So who's available? I'd change my Friday schedule to attend if I could but I can't. I need to get back to SF ACWC President Sally Stephens about who will be there. Who will be there? Thanks! e On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 10:54 PM, Michelle Yesney wrote: Is there any way to find out how many "reps of pet stores and ACC" they're talking about? I can't go (obviously) since I'm still in Oregon. Tammy - can you be there? Karen? Rhonda? My choice would be the three of you, if possible. On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Elizabeth Young wrote: I'm unavailable this Friday unfortunately and so couldn't go even if y'all would let me. Somebody sure should! Please let me know so that I can get back to Sally. e ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Sally Stephens Date: Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 8:16 PM Subject: Meeting w/pet store owners and others?? To: adoptkings@gmail.com Hi Elizabeth, Would you be willing/able to meet with me, Philip Gerrie, and reps of pet stores and ACC to discuss the proposed ban on the sale of animals at pet stores? The idea is to exchange ideas and perspectives and to see if there is any common ground for the various sides of the issue. We're looking to meet this Friday, July 30 at about 1:30 or so somewhere in Noe Valley (likely a restaurant or coffeeshop). Can you join us? -- Sally -- Elizabeth Until they all have homes, don't buy, don't breed- adopt. www.RescueReport.org http://www.rescuereport.org/ www.MickaCoo.org http://www.mickacoo.org/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGjyooh3Yo0 -- Elizabeth Until they all have homes, don't buy, don't breed- adopt. www.RescueReport.org http://www.rescuereport.org/ www.MickaCoo.org http://www.mickacoo.org/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGjyooh3Yo0 Tammy Azzaro Mickaboo http://www.mickaboo.org/ ♡ -- Elizabeth Until they all have homes, don't buy, don't breed- adopt. www.RescueReport.org www.MickaCoo.org http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGjyooh3Yo0

Regarding referring customers to Mickaboo Bird Care class(es), what if pet sellers just sent them (no money). Some might donate. The birds would win. All the extra effort would be on the part of Mickaboo (which is what I was trying to even out with the pet seller putting some money into the effort.) ?? On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 9:51 PM, Jonathan Harris < jonathanharris@earthlink.net> wrote:

Referring to the "two approaches" Elizabeth enumerates, I liked numbers 1, 4 and 5 and 8, and in varying degrees felt uneasy with 2, 3, 6 and 7. Specific reactions below interpolated in red, followed by general comments. -jonathan

BIRDS CONTINUE FOR SALE

1. Pet sellers and staff could attend Mickaboo's Basic Bird Care & Avian Lighting classes and provide feedback on the material and Mickaboo could share what we've learned from our end of the "business" GOOD

2. Pet sellers could purchase "gift certificates" for each of their customers to attend a Mickaboo Bird Care class before purchasing a bird (say for $35/family) & Mickaboo could teach them the basics of up-to-date avian care (much more efficiently than pet sellers doing it one customer at a time)

3. Same for the Avian Lighting class UNEASY WITH 2 AND 3. It smacks of a shakedown (we want a cut of your action) and thereby makes us tacitly complicit in the rest of their activities — or so it feels to me.

4. Pet sellers could do an audit of the foods and supplies they sell in order to eliminate unsafe/unhealthy products and Mickaboo volunteers could help GOOD

5. Pet sellers could agree to minimum cage sizes per species and Mickaboo could provide information based on years of seeing what doesn't work for birds GOOD, although there are other health and happiness issues in pet stores besides cage size.

6. Pet sellers could contribute funds towards the care of unwanted and surrendered birds (whether to SFACC to divvy up amongst the rescues they use or to Mickaboo directly) and Mickaboo would have one more revenue stream to continue doing the work that needs to be done. OK, but again smacks of a shakedown and gets easily factored into the cost of doing business. They may just pass it on to customers or, worse, cut corners elsewhere to stay competitive, to their birds' detriment.

7. Pet sellers could publicize the many, many, many homeless birds that Mickaboo has available for adoption in their stores. WELL ... OK, they could do that, but will they? They already hate us and slander us at every opportunity. They might agree to have our flyers at their stores (like PetCo has a sign saying "Consider adoption first"), but do you really imagine they'd stop bad-mouthing us and our birds? Here, ironically they are correct — we ARE competitors; only it's they who would want us out of their profit-making way. At best (if they did honorably display our materials) it offers them cheap tokenism and makes us implicitly endorse their stores as they now are.

I believe if we have to swallow the continued sale of birds, we should divorce ourselves from anything that smacks of endorsing their practices, or worse seems like a shakedown or sell-out on our part (money for Mickaboo = we tolerate their abuses). IMO, our attention should be focused entirely on what the stores themselves need to do in order to provide adequate care to their birds and education to their customers. If they want our help, that's fine, but we shouldn't require it, so long as they agree to shoulder the responsibility. So that's where I would start. We want birds to be well treated from the time they are hatched to the time they are sold. We want people who purchase and keep birds to be well informed about what birds need in terms of diet, medical care, stimulation, and social interaction - at a minimum.

I would then stress that this is not happening, and for us to be OK with bird sales that has to change fundamentally. We have to be in agreement about what adequate bird care is (for each species), diet, veterinary care, etc. We must insist that bird care sheets and bird care guidance by pet stores are often inadequate. Something more like Mickaboo's basic bird care class is needed - and that can't be done in under a couple hours. If they want to give their own basic bird care classes, based on an agreed curriculum and standards, that's fine. If they want to pay Mickaboo to do it that's fine too. But it has to be a pre-condition for sale. People need to know what they're getting into. No more impulse buying.

And I want full disclosure of where they're getting their birds. We should demand the right to inspect those facilities. If we can discuss minimum standards for cages and pet store sales, then I think it's time to discuss minimum standards at breeding facilities. No more supporting avian slave-mills.

Now of course If birds are no longer for sale, then I have no problem with 2, 3, 6, or 7. In fact, the burden maybe shifts to what WE can do to mitigate the effects on them. I think we can offer to hold adoption fairs or educational events at their stores to bring in traffic, to recommend them to our volunteers and the public at large, to (maybe) let them keep some of our foster birds or (maybe maybe) encourage them to take in others we cannot house. ??? ...

-----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Young Sent: Jul 28, 2010 8:22 PM To: Tammy Azzaro Cc: Rhonda Bennon , Mickaboo media advisor team , Karen Watkins Subject: Re: [Media-advisors] SECOND REQUEST Meeting w/pet store owners and others??

I REALLY hope you can make it, Tammy OR please suggest an alternate date/time that would work to meet if this Friday won't.

And, while on the subject, I thought I'd repost Sally's description of the meeting's objective and see what ideas the group has-

*The idea behind this is to just see what, if any, common ground there may be from various people involved in the issue and to brainstorm ways all the different groups could work together to save animals and increase adoptions. *

I think there are two approaches- ways we could work together if pet sellers continue to sell birds and ways we could work together if pet sellers stopped selling birds. Here are some ideas that I (and I'm not sure which if any are good ones) but I want to jumpstart a discussion so here 'goes.

BIRDS CONTINUE FOR SALE 1. Pet sellers and staff could attend Mickaboo's Basic Bird Care & Avian Lighting classes and provide feedback on the material and Mickaboo could share what we've learned from our end of the "business" 2. Pet sellers could purchase "gift certificates" for each of their customers to attend a Mickaboo Bird Care class before purchasing a bird (say for $35/family) & Mickaboo could teach them the basics of up-to-date avian care (much more efficiently than pet sellers doing it one customer at a time) 3. Same for the Avian Lighting class 4. Pet sellers could do an audit of the foods and supplies they sell in order to eliminate unsafe/unhealthy products and Mickaboo volunteers could help 5. Pet sellers could agree to minimum cage sizes per species and Mickaboo could provide information based on years of seeing what doesn't work for birds 6. Pet sellers could contribute funds towards the care of unwanted and surrendered birds (whether to SFACC to divvy up amongst the rescues they use or to Mickaboo directly) and Mickaboo would have one more revenue stream to continue doing the work that needs to be done. 7. Pet sellers could publicize the many, many, many homeless birds that Mickaboo has available for adoption in their stores

BIRDS NO LONGER FOR SALE All of the above plus 8. Foster birds in their stores and help generate, educate and support adopters

On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Tammy Azzaro wrote:

...

Hi, I would love to be there but I have to work out childcare. I'll get back to you today after my husband gets home. Thanks, tammy

On Jul 28, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Karen Watkins wrote:

How about a maybe from me? I'm waiting to hear when funeral services will be held. If the service is Saturday, I'll take time off Friday.. If the service is Friday afternoon, I can't attend the meeting. I would love to discuss cost margins on pet sales with them. Karen

On Jul 28, 2010 11:01 AM, "Elizabeth Young" wrote:

Hey folks-

So who's available? I'd change my Friday schedule to attend if I could but I can't. I need to get back to SF ACWC President Sally Stephens about who will be there.

Who will be there?

Thanks! e

On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 10:54 PM, Michelle Yesney wrote:

...

Is there any way to find out how many "reps of pet stores and ACC" they're talking about? I can't go (obviously) since I'm still in Oregon.

Tammy - can you be there? Karen? Rhonda?

My choice would be the three of you, if possible.

On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Elizabeth Young wrote:

...

I'm unavailable this Friday unfortunately and so couldn't go even if y'all would let me. Somebody sure should!

Please let me know so that I can get back to Sally.

e

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Sally Stephens Date: Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 8:16 PM Subject: Meeting w/pet store owners and others?? To: adoptkings@gmail.com

Hi Elizabeth,

Would you be willing/able to meet with me, Philip Gerrie, and reps of pet stores and ACC to discuss the proposed ban on the sale of animals at pet stores? The idea is to exchange ideas and perspectives and to see if there is any common ground for the various sides of the issue. We're looking to meet this Friday, July 30 at about 1:30 or so somewhere in Noe Valley (likely a restaurant or coffeeshop). Can you join us? -- Sally

-- Elizabeth

Until they all have homes, don't buy, don't breed- adopt. www.RescueReport.org http://www.rescuereport.org/ www.MickaCoo.org http://www.mickacoo.org/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGjyooh3Yo0

-- Elizabeth

Until they all have homes, don't buy, don't breed- adopt. www.RescueReport.org http://www.rescuereport.org/ www.MickaCoo.org http://www.mickacoo.org/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGjyooh3Yo0

Tammy Azzaro Mickaboo http://www.mickaboo.org/♡

-- Elizabeth

Until they all have homes, don't buy, don't breed- adopt. www.RescueReport.org http://www.rescuereport.org/ www.MickaCoo.org http://www.mickacoo.org/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGjyooh3Yo0

-- Elizabeth Until they all have homes, don't buy, don't breed- adopt. www.RescueReport.org www.MickaCoo.org http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGjyooh3Yo0