Elizabeth Young<
adoptkings@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd love to tell the Commissioners that we're bringing them copies of our
vet bills for 2010 to date... that would be the way to expose Rick.
???
e
On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Mary Long <
atechi2@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Could we ask if he can have his veterinary invoices available, too?
> (Letterhead intact, please)
>
>
> --- On *Sat, 8/7/10, Karen Watkins <
karen.watkins@gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Karen Watkins <
karen.watkins@gmail.com>
>
> Subject: Re: [Media-advisors] Fwd: Working Group Update August 6 10PM
> To: "'Jonathan Harris'" <
jonathanharris@earthlink.net>, "'Mickaboo media
> advisor team'" <
media-advisors@mickaboo.org>
> Date: Saturday, August 7, 2010, 2:46 PM
>
>
> We can ask if Rick will his financial statements available before the
> vote.
>
>
>
> *From:*
media-advisors-bounces@mickaboo.org [mailto:
>
media-advisors-bounces@mickaboo.org] *On Behalf Of *Jonathan Harris
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 07, 2010 2:00 PM
> *To:* Mickaboo media advisor team
> *Subject:* Re: [Media-advisors] Fwd: Working Group Update August 6 10PM
>
>
>
> You're right, of course. Nevertheless, it would be fun if someone
> Thursday night could bring up Rick's boast/assurance in an offhanded way -
> either to embarrass him either into admitting he's full of bluff 'n stuff or
> worse that the facility refuses to open its doors to us, or to embarrass him
> into wrangling us a guided tour.
>
> -j
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Vincent J. Hrovat" <
1217@vhrovat.org>
> Sent: Aug 7, 2010 3:50 PM
> To: 'Mickaboo media advisor team'
> Subject: Re: [Media-advisors] Fwd: Working Group Update August 6 10PM
>
>
> Jonathan, thank you for the insight. It sounds to me like the idea of us
> visiting Central Pet / Preferred Birds was posited by Rick in his
> from-the-hip mode (shoot first and ask questions later). I have serious
> doubts about whether Central Pet would really let us visit their facility
> for a show-and-tell; in fact, I think that any bird breeding and
> distribution that they do is kept as out-of-the-public-eye as is legally
> possible for a publicly-traded company. Besides, most of Rick's other
> from-the-hip stuff is ill-advised at best. I also don't think it's wise to
> dwell too much on this topic because, as others have said, the matter at
> hand is the retailers and not the breeders, and it might obfuscate things to
> put too much focus on what Central Pet is doing.
>
>
>
> On the other hand, I would really like to get as much about Central Pet
> as we can. If at all possible, I would love to be able to get some real and
> current information that we could pass on to Mira, other rescues, et al.
> Elizabeth, do you think it would be prudent to follow up on this topic with
> ACWC (if not with Rick directly) to see if it can lead anywhere?
>
>
>
> --VH
>
>
>
> *From:*
media-advisors-bounces@mickaboo.org [mailto:
>
media-advisors-bounces@mickaboo.org] *On Behalf Of *Jonathan Harris
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 07, 2010 12:30 AM
> *To:* Mickaboo media advisor team
> *Subject:* Re: [Media-advisors] Fwd: Working Group Update August 6 10PM
>
>
> I'm sorry to be sending this so late. Elizabeth - thank you for your
> diligence in getting notes and names and reflections out to everyone!
>
>
> It was a frustrating meeting in many ways. With an exception or two, I
> think most in attendance were trying to be respectful, but without a
> facilitator, contributions more-or-less depended on people's ability to
> break in, which meant the discussion veered all over the place. Rick and
> Claudia had their backs up and were not in a mood to listen. Much of the
> time they were defensive, accusatory or simply obtuse, misinterpreting what
> was said.
>
>
> I was disappointed we were not able to steer the conversation more toward
> the specific needs of birds, tho Elizabeth and I tried at various points.
> Good for Elizabeth, who caught them on budgies/parakeets and brought up Puck
> (the bird with the largest vocabulary) to show them that common, small birds
> have intelligence and complex needs similar to the larger ones who get the
> spotlight. (We must keep attention focused on the "throw-away" birds, as
> Tammy calls them.)
>
>
> The one proposal seriously discussed was Teresa's SPARC. Her presentation
> was fantastic. We may not be happy with aspects of the proposal, but it was
> a detailed, specific, and well thought through compromise that could start
> to change people's consciousness about birds and other small animals as well
> as slow down bird purchases by stopping some impulse buys and weeding out
> some unsuitable candidates. Teresa was very clearheaded, moderate and
> conciliatory in tone, and able to answer all her interlocutors' many
> objections.
>
>
> Elizabeth's 'sanctuary city' idea actually fit very well with Teresa's
> 'educational' proposal. What we are trying to create is a fundamental change
> in people's understanding of birds - their biological and psychological
> nature and what that requires in terms of their care and how they should be
> raised and 'sold.' Hopefully, this would lead to fewer birds in SF homes
> and better care for birds who remain. And we hope too it would set an
> example for the rest of the US. Such changes of consciousness are possible
> in a relatively short time. Most people I know who have dogs or cats today
> got them at shelters; that wasn't true when I was a child.
>
>
> Rick and Claudia's response to all this was that they already are doing
> sufficient education and vetting of their clientele. This was one of their
> main "broken record" points. I tried to challenge them, citing personal
> experience (Patricia and I bought 4 canaries at an SF pet store and got no
> very strong or clear guidance about their care) as well as observation (that
> anecdote, in which a young woman was in and out of a pet store in 20 minutes
> with a new parrotlet she bought because she came in bored with her
> cockatiel). Rick replied that there are "exceptions," a few bad apples, but
> that's not typical. That was another mantra - exceptions. The homeless birds
> presumably are exceptions too, a problem at the periphery having to do with
> individual failures but not deriving from the very nature of the business.
> So he and Claudia believe these exceptions can be handled by things like
> adoption fairs, if only rescue groups would cooperate. Teresa and Marcy
> (that pair could have their own series on network TV as a good cop/bad cop
> team!) tore into them on this and on their whole claim of being responsible,
> citing e.g., pet stores' refusal even to neuter their rodents and rabbits.
>
>
> Teresa also was wonderfully clear about the the real evil being "at the
> back end," as she put it - breeders and distributors - offering store owners
> a graceful way out, the chance to dissociate themselves from the worst
> abuses of the "industry." But they wouldn't even meet us halfway on that. We
> tried to press them on PetCo and the factory farming of birds in the Kaytee
> preferred whatever program (senior moment). Rick said he had no problem with
> PetCo and defended Kaytee. True to his arrogant self, he asked if I had ever
> visited or even seen pictures of their facility. I said no, and had he? He
> admitted he hadn't either, but he knew somebody and he was sure they'd love
> to us around. Elizabeth and I looked at each other and shared one of the
> afternoon's few smiles.
>
>
> My impression of Claudia was a rather sour, bitter person; she thinks we're
> nasty and was spoiling for a fight right out of the starting gate
> (unfortunately, there was this Marcy person waiting to take her up on the
> challenge; fortunately, her store is in Berkeley so we don't have to deal
> with her). My feeling is that Rick was simply looking for any and all
> excuses not to support even the modest and creative compromise that Teresa
> proposed. His mind was made up and he came simply to stonewall and beat
> things down. Ultimately I believe his intransigence is rooted in business
> interests. He expressed an anti-regulatory ideology of free choice by the
> customer working with an ethical business being in everyone's best interest.
> But there is also a strong sense of personal and professional pride
> involved. He was constantly pulling rank ("... and how long have YOU had
> birds?"), discounting anyone else's observations. We (Elizabeth and Sally
> and I) tried to have an amicable conversation with him and Claudia after the
> main meeting broke up. I was trying to probe what they (R&C) considered to
> be good bird care and appropriate customer guidance in terms of such things
> as social interaction, enrichment, and out-of-cage time. It was pretty clear
> they were much less concerned about prolonged confinement or isolation than
> we are; their attitude was patronizing and dismissive of any arguments to
> the contrary. They feel they have vastly more experience and knowledge than
> we do and they are outraged that some motley crew of johnny-come-lately
> radicals and do-gooders wants to impose standards telling them how to do
> what they've been doing (in Rick's case) for 40+ years. They see themselves
> as responsible professionals. Claudia described her job as matching the
> right bird with the right person. She told of how she would question people
> about their lifestyle and e.g., discourage customers from getting a cockatoo
> if they had or were even planning to have children (I don't doubt that she
> and Rick have indeed discouraged a few irresponsible potential buyers - the
> worst of the worst - but of course they do not discourage impulse
> purchases). They also said they were ongoing sources of information and
> guidance for customers with questions about their birds (and I'm sure that's
> also true, whether or not it's always good advice). And they both claim to
> have rehomed many birds.
>
>
> We no longer have to prove there is a crisis in homeless/unwanted birds. I
> didn't hear anybody denying it this afternoon, despite the doublethink
> implicit in seeing it as a "peripheral" problem. Still, we have the stats,
> and we should not let up in broadcasting them (thanks, Martha! and I like
> Vinny's suggestion - especially as testimony for the Aug. 12 AWC meeting). I
> also didn't hear anybody accusing us of being money makers. But if we want
> even to try working with these stores, there still is their
> self-image/ideology to contend with. In order to accomplish anything, we
> would need to have comprehensive and detailed discussions about bird needs
> and bird care, and I doubt they're interested in doing that. If they aren't,
> and they aren't willing to compromise meaningfully in any other way, I
> suppose Marcy is right. Why not go for the ban?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elizabeth Young
> Sent: Aug 7, 2010 1:27 AM
> To: Mickaboo media advisor team
> Subject: [Media-advisors] Fwd: Working Group Update August 6 10PM
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------